Thorns and Roses: Navigating Life with a Learning Disability
Michelle Steiner, the founder of Michelle's Mission, is on a heartfelt journey to empower and educate both people with and without disabilities. In our conversation, we dive deep into her personal experience living with dyscalculia and how it shaped her mission to advocate for those facing similar challenges. She shares insights into the struggles of navigating the education system and the importance of early diagnosis and support. We also touch on the beauty and empathy that can arise from living with a disability, reminding us that while there are thorns in every rose, the blooms are worth celebrating. So grab a comfy seat, and let’s explore how Michelle is using her voice and art to encourage others on their paths.
Michelle Steiner, the force behind Michelle's Mission, takes us on a journey through her personal experiences with learning disabilities. From the early days of struggling with dyscalculia and the challenges of navigating a school system that often failed to understand her needs, Michelle shares her story with a blend of humor and heartfelt sincerity. As she recounts her childhood, she emphasizes the significance of early diagnosis and the support of her parents, who instilled in her a strong faith and resilience. Through her blog and artwork, Michelle empowers others, both with and without disabilities, to embrace their uniqueness and advocate for themselves. It's not just about overcoming challenges; it's about celebrating the beauty found in our differences and using our experiences to uplift others. Her mission is clear: to educate, encourage, and inspire individuals to find their voice and pursue their dreams, regardless of the obstacles they face.
Throughout the podcast, Michelle opens up about the misconceptions surrounding learning disabilities and the stigma that often accompanies them. She highlights the irony of how society tends to box individuals into categories based on their abilities, forgetting that everyone learns differently. With a touch of sarcasm, she mocks the absurdity of those who assume that having a disability equates to being incapable. Instead, she insists that having a learning disability can be a source of strength and empathy, allowing individuals to connect with others on a deeper level. As she reflects on her own journey, Michelle encourages listeners to recognize their potential and embrace their stories, reminding us all that our experiences, however challenging, can lead to beautiful outcomes.
In a world that often overlooks the nuances of learning disabilities, Michelle's Mission stands as a beacon of hope and empowerment. The podcast serves not just as a platform for sharing personal anecdotes but as a call to action for listeners to become advocates for themselves and others. Michelle's approach is relatable, and her insights are invaluable, making this conversation one that resonates with anyone who has ever felt marginalized or misunderstood. As she navigates through the complexities of her journey, Michelle reminds us that while the path may be fraught with challenges, it is also filled with opportunities for growth, learning, and connection. So, grab your favorite beverage, settle in, and prepare to be inspired by a story that is as much about overcoming adversity as it is about celebrating the journey of being uniquely you.
Takeaways:
- Michelle Steiner's journey illustrates the importance of early diagnosis in learning disabilities, highlighting how it can change lives.
- The conversation emphasizes that having a learning disability does not define a person's abilities or potential, as many can thrive with proper support.
- Michelle's Mission aims to empower individuals with disabilities by encouraging self-advocacy and providing necessary resources for success.
- The episode reveals the stark contrast in perceptions of learning disabilities, stressing the need for empathy and understanding in educational environments.
- An important takeaway is that societal expectations can disable individuals more than their actual disabilities, emphasizing the need for acceptance of diverse learning styles.
- Michelle's personal experiences underscore the idea that beauty and pain coexist in life, especially for those navigating disabilities.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Michelle's mission
Transcript
Welcome back.
Speaker A:My name is Ashley and this is the Black Sheep Christian Podcast.
Speaker A:And today I am here with Michelle Steiner.
Speaker A:Welcome.
Speaker B:Oh, thank you for having me.
Speaker B:I'm so excited to have this conversation today.
Speaker A:Yes, Michelle is the founder of Michelle's mission to encourage, empower and educate people with without disabilities.
Speaker A:I'm happy that we were able to connect because I myself have a disability.
Speaker A:I have a learning disability, which is dyslexia.
Speaker A:And so I.
Speaker A:So this conversation is for me, personal.
Speaker A:So thank you.
Speaker B:Oh, you're so welcome.
Speaker A:So with your website, michelle's mission.com you for those to connect, because you have your podcast, you have merch, you have some really beautiful art.
Speaker A:I do have to say, when I was looking at the pictures, I was like, oh, wow.
Speaker A:It's like, is your stuff in museums?
Speaker B:Not yet.
Speaker A:Because I was like, oh, wow, this is really beautiful.
Speaker A:But they should.
Speaker A:But please tell us more about your cause and what got you started.
Speaker B:Sure, I'd be happy to.
Speaker B:I have a blog called Michelle's Mission where I write about my life with a learning disability and I feature my photography.
Speaker B:And my mission with Michelle's Mission is to be able to empower, educate and, and encourage people with and without disabilities.
Speaker B:And I have a learning disability myself.
Speaker B:I have dyscalculia, which is a math learning disability.
Speaker B:I also have limited hand dexterity and visual perception issues.
Speaker B:And where a lot of this started at was in my very early years.
Speaker B:I was diagnosed with having one.
Speaker B:Whenever I was in kindergarten.
Speaker B:My teacher noticed that I was really struggling in the classroom with writing my name, tying my shoes, dot to dot pages, anything math related was a real challenge for me.
Speaker B:And I was so fortunate that God really blessed me that he gave me, first of all, set of wonderful parents who never gave up on me and had a strong faith foundation.
Speaker B:And he also got.
Speaker B:I got diagnosed early because during that time period, they really didn't diagnose people with learning disabilities.
Speaker B:We were just a couple years behind legislation that was passed that guaranteed that children with disabilities needed to be funded, the programming had to be funded in the school, and they had to be educated.
Speaker B:So I was really just.
Speaker B:It was just amazing being blessed to have that.
Speaker B:And sure enough, after all the testing, I do indeed have a learning disability.
Speaker B:And they didn't give it a specific name.
Speaker B:They didn't call it dyscalculia, but it was more of a blanket term.
Speaker B:But we knew I was not going to be a mathematician when I was five or six years old, that that was one of the.
Speaker B:The clearest Things that we knew.
Speaker B:And I can just remember another really significant thing happened at that time.
Speaker B:I accepted Christ.
Speaker B:I was at.
Speaker B:My parents were.
Speaker B:I was raised Catholic, but my parents were very open to other denominations and I went to a vacation Bible school and that's when I made that decision.
Speaker B:But my.
Speaker B:We still went to the Catholic church growing up.
Speaker B:And I can remember just going through school was really difficult for me, especially in the elementary school years.
Speaker B:I had to repeat kindergarten the following year in a different school in our district.
Speaker B:It was just hard for me with going into.
Speaker B:Into school.
Speaker B:I had to go to specialty instruction in the morning in all areas.
Speaker B:We did reading, writing, we.
Speaker B:We attempted to do math.
Speaker B:That didn't work out very well.
Speaker B:And I had kindergarten in the afternoon.
Speaker B:And I just can remember feeling really discouraged and just thinking, well, my life is always going to be hard because of this and I can't learn.
Speaker B:And just that I wondered how was God going to use any of this for my good.
Speaker B:And I also struggled socially.
Speaker B:I really had a difficult time in the classroom with my peers.
Speaker B:If I was in learning support.
Speaker B:Most of my peers struggle with reading.
Speaker B:Some of them had behavior issues, sadly, some of them came from some really sad, traumatic backgrounds.
Speaker B:And there was even students that were just thrown in the room that had maybe autism or other disabilities and they didn't know where to put them at.
Speaker B:So they just put them in learning support.
Speaker B:So it was hard to be able to identify someone to identify with.
Speaker B:And then it was really hard for me when I was in regular ed as well because my peers could see that I was struggling even when I was put in for science and social studies.
Speaker B:And I went to a very small school district that was very conservative and it just.
Speaker B:I stuck out like a sore thumb.
Speaker B:I was not one of them from the time I was really young.
Speaker B:And it just, it was really difficult for me.
Speaker B:Just, just with growing up academically, school got a lot easier for me.
Speaker B:I was in all regular ed classes by the time that I was in high school.
Speaker B:And another thing that happened, my family discovered I really good with reading and writing.
Speaker B:My dad found a story about a dinosaur that I wrote in second or third grade and said, wow, this is really good.
Speaker B:And that just encouraged me to write and to read and that just really became my world.
Speaker B:And then whenever I got into high school, I was in all regular ed classes except for math in a resource room.
Speaker B:And I was doing really well academically.
Speaker B:I made honor roll consistently for a few years.
Speaker B:But socially things got a lot harder for me.
Speaker B:I can Remember, a lot of the peer groups became more defined.
Speaker B:Everybody had their friends, everybody had their own little, their own little group.
Speaker B:And I just didn't fit in with anybody.
Speaker B:And I could really sense the disconnection with the school that I was at.
Speaker B:So I decided that I was going to look for other resources.
Speaker B:I found a faith based art group just outside of my school district.
Speaker B:And God really worked in that way.
Speaker B:I got to meet other peers that had the same interest that I did, that didn't go to my school so I could shed that reputation.
Speaker B:God also started to work in my life and I got to see him as a loving father and more of a person to have a relationship with than I grew up in the Catholic Church.
Speaker B:And that really helped me.
Speaker B:And then God led me to my adult writing group.
Speaker B:Once I transitioned out of the hanging out with the teen based one, I found some wonderful people that were just a few years older than I was and they got to see me not grow not only as a writer, but as a person.
Speaker B:And 20 some years later, we're still in each other's lives and we're just, it's just such a blessing to have someone that, that's there and we still meet once a month to talk about our writing.
Speaker B:And they really encouraged me, you should really write about having a learning disability.
Speaker B:And I thought, oh no, that's way too personal, I'm not going to talk about that.
Speaker B:And I wrote some really bad poetry and some other things that I want to read today.
Speaker B:And when I also.
Speaker B:Another big thing that happened when I was a teenager was, well, the question was, well, what am I going to do when I'm done with high school?
Speaker B:I knew I wanted to go to college, but I didn't know what in the world if I, if I could do it.
Speaker B:I knew that I wanted to work with kids and I wanted to go there.
Speaker B:And I didn't know if I could handle that.
Speaker B:That, and I wasn't alone in those fears.
Speaker B:I had a learning support teacher who told me, well, I don't think that you can handle college.
Speaker B:Why don't you go to a trade school?
Speaker B:And nothing of the trade school interested me.
Speaker B:So I decided, well, I'm going to go to college.
Speaker B:I got connected with office for vocational rehabilitation and they helped me to pay for school.
Speaker B:They paid for all my testing and I had to be tested for a learning disability all over again.
Speaker B:And this time when I was tested, I, I really scored low on all my scores.
Speaker B:And my, the psychiatrist who evaluated me said, well, based on These scores, you're most likely not going to go beyond community college.
Speaker B:I get to community college and there's even more stigma.
Speaker B:I had an advisor who told me I would have limited job choices.
Speaker B:I had professors who told me when I that both professors and staff thought that accommodations were cheating.
Speaker B:When I asked for a calculator and a professor said, well, we use our brains, not calculators in this class.
Speaker B:And Pierce thought getting tests read aloud were me getting the answers.
Speaker B:So I didn't use a lot of the accommodations.
Speaker B:And that was not a good wise move on my part.
Speaker B:My grades were already really low and it caused it to drop even lower.
Speaker B:But finally I had a professor that said, why don't we at least get you extra time on tests?
Speaker B:And I took extra her advice and I was able to pass her class.
Speaker B:I did not do well in that class, but I passed it.
Speaker B:And I graduated with an associate's degree in early childhood education.
Speaker B:I love moving out after graduation.
Speaker B:I moved out on my own.
Speaker B:I'm not able to drive because of my disability and I loved having that independence.
Speaker B:And I was working at some temp jobs but.
Speaker B:And I started attending another church that wasn't Catholic and.
Speaker B:But I still really struggled with my purpose.
Speaker B:I wondered, well, where is this purpose and this plan in.
Speaker B:In all of this?
Speaker B:And it was really, be careful what you wish for though, because I had to move back in my.
Speaker B:With my parents for financial reasons.
Speaker B:I always wanted more for myself.
Speaker B:Well, God answered that prayer and my job was downsizing at the time.
Speaker B:And I can just remember I had so many people that were from church that were just asking so many questions.
Speaker B:I had one person that said, well, didn't you pray about it?
Speaker B:And I'm like, I did now I can see that God had other plans.
Speaker B:It was during this time that I also decided I'm going to give university a try.
Speaker B:I researched programs offered at our university that was local and had disability accommodations, had a program I loved and had the least amount of math and science possible.
Speaker B:And I even had a ride to, to campus.
Speaker B:My mom went to church and for an event and one of my cousins worked on campus and my mom was telling her about this, that I was going back to school, but I didn't have a ride.
Speaker B:And she said, I'll.
Speaker B:I'll take Michelle, no problem.
Speaker B:I was able to graduate debt free.
Speaker B:And when I was there, it was a better experience for me.
Speaker B:I used all the accommodations.
Speaker B:I had a note taker.
Speaker B:I had extended test time.
Speaker B:I had tutoring when I needed it and most importantly, I advocated for myself.
Speaker B:I would go up to my professors and say, hi, my name is Michelle.
Speaker B:I have a learning disability.
Speaker B:These are the services I'm going to need.
Speaker B:Most people were so understanding and really did whatever they could to help me.
Speaker B:I had I'll set a couple that didn't quite get the memo, but I knew how to handle it and it was so better experience.
Speaker B:My grades improved dramatically and I even made dean's list for a semester.
Speaker B:And I was able to graduate with a bachelor's degree despite being told I couldn't do it.
Speaker B:After college, it took me a while to find a job that was disability friendly.
Speaker B:A lot of places claimed that they were, but they were anything but that.
Speaker B:And I've been working in a school as a teacher's aide for about 15 years and I love working with students.
Speaker B:I work with seventh graders this year and I think it's amazing to just be able to work with them and help them with their work.
Speaker B:And they know not to help me or, excuse me, they know not to ask me for help with math.
Speaker B:I cannot do that.
Speaker B:I had that question today and I'm like, nope, sorry, cannot help you with that.
Speaker B:And I also show them how to advocate.
Speaker B:I had a student today that was really concerned about his grade and the teacher didn't great things.
Speaker B:I said, well, what do you think you need to do?
Speaker B:Email my.
Speaker B:Oh, I should email my teacher.
Speaker B:I said, yeah, you really should email your teacher because you need to know how to advocate for yourself.
Speaker B:And that's a big thing that I tell a lot of my students.
Speaker B:I'll tell them, yeah, they have to learn how to handle that because all my students one day are going to leave me.
Speaker B:And I hope that they're able to graduate and achieve every dream that they want.
Speaker B:But for so many of them, their disabilities are going to stay.
Speaker B:And it's so key that we show them now what they need to do during that time.
Speaker B:Right after college, I also ended up meeting my husband and we got married after school.
Speaker B:And it was another dream.
Speaker B:That was another dream of mine too.
Speaker B:I always wondered if I was going to meet somebody.
Speaker B:And people said, well, you're probably not going to meet anybody because of your disability.
Speaker B:And God had other plans with that.
Speaker B:I was so tired of being in broken relationships.
Speaker B:In fact, my ex, when he was breaking up with me, said, I think you could drive places and I'm really tired of taking you where you need to go.
Speaker B:And I, I prayed about that and I just said, God, don't Send anybody until it's the right person.
Speaker B:And he sent a lot of people.
Speaker B:He sent my husband to me.
Speaker B:And that came is there were so many.
Speaker B:Prof.
Speaker B:So many visions of that too, that now I can look back and see on I was where I met my husband was the arts center, and I was volunteering that night, and he saw me wearing a red dress.
Speaker B:And he said, wow, who's that girl in that red dress?
Speaker B:And where's she going?
Speaker B:Well, turns out we were going to the same place and we need mutual friends.
Speaker B:And years before that, I had a friend that said, ask me if I was seeing anybody.
Speaker B:And I said, no, not, not right now.
Speaker B:And he goes, I have a feeling you're going to meet somebody at a place like this.
Speaker B:And that's exactly where I met him at.
Speaker B:And another friend from church called me and said, I had this dream.
Speaker B:You were standing in front of the courthouse wearing a white dress, a white vintage dress, and you were getting married.
Speaker B:And I thought to myself, okay, I can see the vintage dress.
Speaker B:That's definitely my style.
Speaker B:But why am I standing in front of the courthouse?
Speaker B:And who is this guy?
Speaker B:And when we got married, we had a reception at the art center and the photographer had us take a little walk.
Speaker B:And in the background was a park.
Speaker B:Was the courthouse in the park.
Speaker B:And I didn't realize that until I got our pictures back, that that's the vision God was giving to say, you're going to meet this person.
Speaker B:This is part of my plan for your life.
Speaker B:Another dream that came true with that too was I got an article published when we moved into our our house.
Speaker B:I was diagnosed with limited hand dexterity and I could not open up our front door.
Speaker B:And I was so frustrated with that.
Speaker B:Then there was a call on the mighty for what's a seemingly easy task for others, but it's really hard with your disability.
Speaker B:And I wrote about that and it got published.
Speaker B:And when it did, I had such a great response of people coming back and saying, well, that's my story.
Speaker B:I thought I was the only one.
Speaker B:And that encouraged me to write other articles and to be able to start my own blog called Michelle's Mission, where I write about my life with a learning disability.
Speaker B:And then another dream that came about was photography.
Speaker B:I am not always able to get a ride places, and when I don't, I get that chance.
Speaker B:God gives me that chance to literally stop and smell the roses and I get to take pictures of flowers and other things that I see on my walks.
Speaker B:And I people tell me I bring out the details in a flower that they will miss.
Speaker B:And I've had my photos featured in magazines and I've put them in a couple art shows.
Speaker B:And I think to myself, rather than being sad that I don't have that ride, there would be so many things that I would miss if I was driving.
Speaker B:And I started to see some of that beauty.
Speaker B:And I just got to see how God has really all worked in my life.
Speaker B:There is so many details that maybe I missed, but he's worked that out for my good and now I get that chance to help others.
Speaker A:Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker A:That was a beautiful story.
Speaker A:And what you said as far as the beginning and also what God has blessed you with, what I found.
Speaker A:I want to take a step back because part of your story in your blog, that really touched me in a way and that is you describing when you were first.
Speaker A:When it was first identified that you had a disability.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And that.
Speaker A:And in the blog you wrote.
Speaker A:The thrustle of being different bore into my flesh and the bullying began early.
Speaker A:The small school made me stick out like a giant sharp point and I could not conceal.
Speaker A:Then I went to a learning support for classes and to half test read out loud.
Speaker A:I was also picked on in these classes.
Speaker A:Many of my peers in learning support struggled with reading, not math.
Speaker A:Other peers in the class have behavior issues and trauma backgrounds.
Speaker A:In regular education classes, I was not considered a valuable member of the class.
Speaker A:Being in a learning disability class, the separation, in my opinion is just as damaging as the disability itself and the reason why that stuck out to me.
Speaker A:And listening to your story, I find it interesting in that when having a learning disability, because you talked about how college, how you were like, I need these things.
Speaker A:I'm like, no you don't.
Speaker A:People forget.
Speaker A:People forget that when it comes to a learning disability, the emotional support that's not needed for the person and also the understanding that everybody truly does learn differently and they learn differently within learning differently, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Everybody truly does learn in a different way, even if they don't have a learning disability.
Speaker B:We all have ways that we learn.
Speaker B:We all have ways that we can pick up on information.
Speaker B:But a person that has one, there's just something that makes it just a little extra difficult maybe for somebody to pick up on things.
Speaker B:And it's not just simply that I don't want to learn how to do something or it's not that I'm not motivated.
Speaker B:I can remember people also saying too in school, well, college is for students who like school and you must not like school.
Speaker B:And I'm thinking, I do like school.
Speaker B:I like learning.
Speaker B:I just don't like being bullied.
Speaker B:I certainly don't like to struggle and things that really were hard for me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm thinking about my own experience, because when you said you were diagnosed in kindergarten, I'm thinking like, wow, lucky you.
Speaker A:I wasn't diagnosed until I was in the seventh grade.
Speaker A:And so I went all that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That long.
Speaker A:And part of it was I disguised my learning disability, not knowing I had a learning disability.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker A:Like us kids, we don't know what that is.
Speaker A:We just know that we can't do it like everybody else.
Speaker A:Not knowing the terminology.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker B:A lot of students are really good at masking that, especially females.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:That is one of the things that a lot of times, maybe if a student can find somebody to help them, that might be kind of like the.
Speaker B:The mother hen kind of.
Speaker B:We hear a lot about that.
Speaker B:Can do that.
Speaker B:And I was pretty lucky, though, too.
Speaker B:I was also an only child for 13 years, so I had a lot of adults, so I was pretty upset because I couldn't get something.
Speaker B:And my frustration was very visible because I was around adults and had more adult interactions.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:My mom.
Speaker A:One of my signs that my mom remembered was lemon was the word lemon and how frustrated I was with that word and.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And how I wanted it to be.
Speaker A:I think I was, like, mixing lemon with something else and how frustrated I was.
Speaker A:And my mom was kind of like.
Speaker A:Like the connection wasn't there yet.
Speaker A:You know, when you're talking.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Harry.
Speaker A:I'm a kid crying like women.
Speaker B:I can't get in.
Speaker B:I know, and you're right.
Speaker B:There is a lot I can remember when I was growing up.
Speaker B:We had a lot of long, cheerful homework sessions with my.
Speaker B:My mom and my dad, sometimes with trying to do things because I wasn't making that connection.
Speaker B:And I'm this little kid that's just frustrated.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And thinking that I can't do this, and why is it so hard and why am I trying so very hard and I'm still not passing these tests?
Speaker B:And my.
Speaker B:My parents had to have me go to school even when I knew I was struggling with something and to build that resilience and to focus in on what I was good at and to be able to find that.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, I. I hear you.
Speaker B:On how something can look so simple to somebody else.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And it just looks impossible.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:What I find, the beauty in your story is that the advocate part because learning disabilities come in different forms.
Speaker A:They're main ones, you know, they're definitely main ones that people are aware.
Speaker A:But I'm using myself as an example with dyslexia.
Speaker A:What's known about it is letters aren't structured right in the mind.
Speaker A:But dyslexia, there.
Speaker A:There's an umbrella of what happens with dyslexia.
Speaker A:So when you be like, yeah, I'm dyslexic, people thinking like, oh, you're just seeing something that's wrong.
Speaker A:It's like, no, that's not.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It could be a lot.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's part of it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But it's also language based.
Speaker B:And a lot of times when you say dyslexia, people have never heard of dyscalculia.
Speaker B:So what they do when they think of me is they're like, oh, do you see numbers backwards?
Speaker B:And I'm like, no, I. I don't.
Speaker B:I. I really don't see numbers backwards.
Speaker B:I have difficulty with how they work.
Speaker B:Understand, like that working memory when I'm doing a problem and even using a calculator does not help me very much.
Speaker B:Some people might think, oh, that's cheating.
Speaker B:Well, it's really not much of a help, but it's better than nothing.
Speaker B:And I'm also not able to tell time on the face of a clock on an analog clock, so I have to read a digital one.
Speaker B:I use my Fitbit for more than just counting steps.
Speaker B:And I also confused my right from my left.
Speaker B:And people just don't think that.
Speaker B:They automatically just assume that I should be able to do this.
Speaker B:And especially because with you and I learning, our disabilities are hidden.
Speaker B:So people don't.
Speaker B:Can't look at us and see the difficulty that we're having.
Speaker B:So everybody, a lot, or I shouldn't say everybody, but a lot of people are like, well, why can't you do it?
Speaker B:Or what's wrong with you?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And part of your story of teaching students how to advocate for themselves, that is really another big step that I find the beauty in your story, because you have to go past the shame in order to get what you need in order to succeed.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And it's never an easy conversation to have, but it's so important to do that and to get comfortable with it.
Speaker B:And I think that is.
Speaker B:And it can look different.
Speaker B:Sometimes I might tell people, oh, I have a learning disability.
Speaker B:And sometimes if I know we're not going to be seeing it a lot like in other classes or other things, I might just say, I'm just not Good with math.
Speaker B:And they want to say, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm sure you can handle it.
Speaker B:Or you can do that.
Speaker B:I can just mask it a little bit and smile.
Speaker B:But I know in my head that it just goes beyond not knowing numbers or being bad at it, and I'm okay with that.
Speaker B:But it's real important that I do tell the right people so they can help me if we.
Speaker B:When we run into certain situations.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:It's not always.
Speaker B:It's definitely not a fun conversation to have.
Speaker B:It's not one.
Speaker B:I always.
Speaker B:Because I never know the reaction of somebody, but it gets a little softer each time or it gets just maybe easier to speak.
Speaker B:Because it's just a natural part of.
Speaker B:With having a disability.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:And then another thing, too, which I find, which is a natural.
Speaker A:What you said, my brain, like, really went flat.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is a natural part of having a disability is learning about identifying support, Right?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Because you have to know what support is out there.
Speaker B:And support's gonna look a lot different for everybody when you're in school.
Speaker B:It'll be your individualized education plan, and then there'll be learning support teachers and working as that teacher team.
Speaker B:Now when you become an adult, that's when it can get a little.
Speaker B:Things are going to be a lot different.
Speaker B:You can go to college, and if you find a school that has disability accommodations and they.
Speaker B:They have them, it's up to you to seek them out, and it's up for.
Speaker B:Up to you to use them.
Speaker B:I had to.
Speaker B:I mean, it was up to me.
Speaker B:Nobody was standing there telling me, oh, you need to do this, or calling on my behalf.
Speaker B:I. I had to do that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And that can also be difficult.
Speaker B:And also, as an adult, once I was done with school, I have to be the one that can go up to a boss or a principal or an administrator or a supervisor, and I have to tell people I have a learning disability.
Speaker B:These are the things I'm not able to do.
Speaker B:And that's just so important to be able to know how to do that.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I think you just hit it.
Speaker A:School is.
Speaker A:School is supposed to.
Speaker A:Well, school should provide.
Speaker A:They should provide.
Speaker A:And then college is.
Speaker A:Also has resources.
Speaker A:But it really hits when you get into the workplace, because sometimes depending upon your workplace, your workplace may not have the resources.
Speaker A:May not have the funding for the resources.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:May not.
Speaker A:Even if they get there, it may not even comprehend in order for an employee, for you as an employee, to do your job, because technically, you can do your job.
Speaker A:You just need tools to do it.
Speaker A:And so if they're giving you a hammer and a nail and you'd be like, I need a screwdriver instead.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I even worked for a place that was a disability agency.
Speaker B:It was different than the job that I applied for, but I decided, okay, I'm gonna go give this a try.
Speaker B:And it was not the right job for me because it did involve math and it involved numbers and it involved some other skills that I didn't have.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And they did accommodate to a certain point, like, I was not able to make holes in the paper, like in neat, straight lines for them to file things.
Speaker B:So they did get me an electric hole puncher, which was great.
Speaker B:Now we have copiers that my job that staples things, punches holes, and everything looks good with that.
Speaker B:But they didn't have that at that place.
Speaker B:And they help people with disabilities, but most of the people they help with disabilities were in wheelchairs and had physical disabilities, so they were really skilled on that.
Speaker B:But if you ask them about learning disabilities and what I needed to do to be successful and understand things, they did not know how to help me.
Speaker B:And it didn't work out with that place.
Speaker B:I've even had other places that it had didn't work out or just I struggled.
Speaker B:I can remember that I was working with kids in daycares and people couldn't understand when the kids took their shoes off and I would put.
Speaker B:I couldn't tell what foot they were on and couldn't tell if it's the right foot or the left foot.
Speaker B:And also there was another craft where I had to punch a hole in something.
Speaker B:And they couldn't understand why I couldn't punch a hole.
Speaker B:They couldn't understand why my handwriting wasn't neat.
Speaker B:And I can remember when I was leaving, the one work supervisor was like, well, I think you.
Speaker B:You need to learn.
Speaker B:You know, just keep in mind for your next job, work on putting their shoes on the right feet or just things like that.
Speaker B:And that person was a nice person, but they didn't quite get that whole concept that there's just some things I can try out and I'm not going to be able to get or up to the standard that maybe somebody else think.
Speaker A:Question with your cause is to educate people with and without disabilities.
Speaker A:And we have.
Speaker A:We talked quite a bit as far as.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:And I think.
Speaker A:I think we're almost touching it a bit with the different stories that you have.
Speaker A:What do you think is the big one?
Speaker A:Misconception because we talked about how disabilities, learning disabilities are hidden.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker A:What, what pinpoint can you do, say, as far as a misconception?
Speaker B:Well, I think there's two misconceptions.
Speaker B:Oh, there's.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:The two big ones.
Speaker B:The first one is a person with a learning disability can do anything.
Speaker B:And that I might see with people that know me and they're like, well, you must have overcome that because you have a bachelor's degree.
Speaker B:And I have to tell them, no, I still have a learning disability even though I've been successful.
Speaker B:And then the other misconception I see is people think that a person with a learning disability can't do anything.
Speaker B:And that's not true either.
Speaker B:My brain might learn differently and I might need a different way to learn something, but I'm able to learn.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's well said.
Speaker A:That's well said.
Speaker A:And that's a great way to put it all in.
Speaker A:I know you wrote.
Speaker A:Well, this is my thought as far as reading your blog and your page.
Speaker A:And I put a thought as far as, you know, for me, you know, my learning disability gave me a gift to be able to find alternative and comfortable ways sometimes to make things work when they shouldn't work.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:What gift did your disability give you?
Speaker B:One of the biggest gifts my disability has given me is empathy because I can understand that when I'm working, working with other people that have disabilities, it may not be every single person because everybody experiences it differently, but a majority of the students that I see do not like their disability, do not want to be a learning support.
Speaker B:And I'm able to really lock eyes with them and say, I understand what it's like.
Speaker B:I know that it's not always easy, but you are very smart and you're very capable and you can do, you.
Speaker B:You can do, you can go out for all those dreams in life.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And I get to reassure them that it doesn't matter.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It really doesn't matter with them and they can do that and that they are smart.
Speaker A:That's very valid.
Speaker A:It does give us more empathy and, and you know, and what it also does to too is it gives us a viewpoint and a window into just understanding that we are all different and we're more.
Speaker A:As far as somebody with a learning disabilities, I have become more tolerable to.
Speaker B:People who are different.
Speaker A:And it doesn't need to be a disability.
Speaker A:It can just be anything and everything as far as looks, as far as behavior, behavior as far as language and culture.
Speaker A:It is like to have a learning disability.
Speaker A:You Quickly learn differences, and you quickly learn normal, if that's even real, because we all have differences.
Speaker B:Agreed.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:It does give you that way of understanding that people might look at something in a totally different way.
Speaker A:Valid switching gears since we did the whole gamut.
Speaker A:What advice would you give to best handle an undiagnosed learning disability?
Speaker A:Because we barely touched on the trauma.
Speaker A:Touched on that trauma, and we might as well just talk about it now.
Speaker B:I would really recommend that if somebody thinks that their child is struggling, to really go out and get them tested or to consult with their teachers.
Speaker B:Because there are so many kids that I do see in classes that do not have a diagnosis for a learning disability or any other type, and they're struggling, and we're wondering, why are they not getting services?
Speaker B:And I think that a lot of parents are hesitant to do that because they don't want.
Speaker B:I don't want my child labeled.
Speaker B:Or they might say, well, I don't want my child to think they can't do anything.
Speaker B:And that's one of their greatest fears.
Speaker B:But I think when we don't label it and when we don't intervene and when we're not honest, I think that that adds to a lot of trauma because the child grows up thinking that they're not very smart.
Speaker B:They don't want to try things because they're thinking, well, anytime I try to do it, I. I fail.
Speaker B:And they're also unmotivated because they also often think, too.
Speaker B:That goes back to that.
Speaker B:If I.
Speaker B:Once I try something, I'm not very successful at it.
Speaker B:And my mom and dad really were amazing.
Speaker B:They not only advocated for me, but they explained my disability to me in simple, wage, appropriate terms.
Speaker B:They told me that I had a learning disability, and then my brain, I just learned differently.
Speaker B:And I think that that is so important because I see a lot of kids that are diagnosed and we might be going over a transition inventory, what they want to do when they grow up, or just maybe some other paperwork.
Speaker B:And we'll say, well, do you know what your disability is?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Do you know what an IEP is?
Speaker B:They're like, no.
Speaker B:And I just think that that really hurts a lot of kids.
Speaker B:In the end, we don't want to discourage them by saying, oh, well, you have dyslexia or dyscalculia, so that means that you can't do this.
Speaker B:We might want to tell them that because of this, these are some of the things that you might struggle with, and we might have to change your course of action with that.
Speaker B:But but sometimes I just think that that is just.
Speaker B:The not knowing can be really traumatic to a child.
Speaker A:Agreed.
Speaker A:Not even the not knowing.
Speaker A:I, I do agree with that.
Speaker A:But I mean, I know I'm thinking about my own situation.
Speaker A:It was like the.
Speaker A:The self worth.
Speaker A:Because even you wrote.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How you were in class with students who had behavioral issues.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Technically.
Speaker A:I mean, you did say it was a.
Speaker A:You know, it's a small school, so the school.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm.
Speaker A:I. I can understand why the school didn't do it because they probably didn't have.
Speaker A:The teachers didn't have the space in order to separate and.
Speaker A:And have a more specialized class.
Speaker A:But as a kid, you're thinking like, why am I here?
Speaker A:I follow.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I listen to what the teacher says.
Speaker B:I might have only ended up in the corner once.
Speaker B:For in my elementary school career.
Speaker B:I can only really remember getting in trouble once.
Speaker B:I mean, in there.
Speaker B:And it was nothing very significant.
Speaker B:And yeah, I wonder why I was in there.
Speaker B:And sometimes that was traumatizing and also just too.
Speaker B:Some of those students were also bullies with me.
Speaker B:They would also say what some of the rank of the right kids were saying.
Speaker B:So that was really traumatized.
Speaker B:Traumatizing to have to hear that as well.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:It was just a very difficult experience with that.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:But I'm glad I had it, though, because I did need that to be able to have the math and I needed that to lay.
Speaker B:Even though I'm a good reader, I needed.
Speaker B:I needed just a little bit of extra help.
Speaker B:So I'm very glad that I had the support in.
Speaker B:In the classroom too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's valid.
Speaker A:That's very valid.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm sorry, I'm just thinking.
Speaker A:I'm just thinking.
Speaker A:Your little kindergarten self with your little cute outfit on.
Speaker A:Oh, goodness, no.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But you know, for.
Speaker A:Yeah, my mind is just paused.
Speaker A:So thinking this through as far as what your cause and what your website can offer.
Speaker A:I know you have blogs, you have podcasts, and you have some really beautiful art.
Speaker A:What does your outside.
Speaker A:I mean, you do spread awareness, but what does your cause do?
Speaker B:One of my causes is definitely to spread the awareness about what learning disabilities are.
Speaker B:That's definitely something I want to do.
Speaker B:And also to give encouragement to people because there's so many people that maybe have a disability or they have a learning disability, and they really just need that encouragement to go after their dreams and to be able to support them with that as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's very valid.
Speaker A:Oh, so question for you, because we have really talked through a lot as far as trauma.
Speaker A:We have talked about how to help those not only for yourself, but also tips for parents when it comes to someone with a learning disability.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And one question that I do want to ask as far as with this subject matter when it comes to disabilities, is that in your opinion, in your expert opinion, what do you think, in your expert opinion, what do you think when it comes to learning disabilities that we are getting right?
Speaker B:I think one of the things that we are definitely getting right is the amount of transition services that we are providing.
Speaker B:I think that that is something that is really great with that because whenever I was in school, it wasn't necessarily there wasn't as many services or as many options or of giving students information.
Speaker B:So I think a lot of that awareness maybe is what is right too.
Speaker B:And we might have how we can transition when you're in college.
Speaker B:I mean that those things can really help or even with the job later.
Speaker B:And I think it's about understanding what those resources are.
Speaker B:And I think also people have a better understanding of learning disabilities in general.
Speaker B:Yes, there's some that there's still misconceptions, there are still misunderstandings, but I think that people, people are really understanding that they do exist.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I know we talked quite a bit about the wrong.
Speaker A:But I do want to remember the rose.
Speaker A:The right.
Speaker A:Because about that, the rose and the thorns and your blog, which is a beautiful blog that I do suggest people to go to@michellesmission.com because for those who are just learning about disabilities, I think your website and what you write is a great window into how, how somebody feels and what their journey is on having a learning disability.
Speaker A:And I think that's.
Speaker A:That's a beautiful.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker A:It's well written and it's great, great, great photography.
Speaker A:But most importantly, if somebody needs to really understand the mind learning disability, I think your website really captures that well.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:So before I ask my last question, I do want to take the time to thank you for being here and sharing your story and your cause and you walking in God's plan and obedience.
Speaker A:Learning disabilities is a unique journey to be on.
Speaker A:In the simple fact like what we talked about, it is something that can be disguised.
Speaker A:What we talked about is to have the courage to go past the shame in order to get the support for you to be able to obtain the things that you need.
Speaker A:So for you to be able to walk on this path, I do want to acknowledge and, and thank you for that.
Speaker B:Well, thank you so much.
Speaker B:I appreciate that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So my last question for you today is your story, and your journey was quite beautiful in the fact of the beginning, the dreams to be able to just accomplish more than what probably what others felt at the time that you weren't able to accomplish.
Speaker A:And my question.
Speaker A:My last question is, have you ever.
Speaker A:And you may not.
Speaker A:You may not.
Speaker A:And have you ever had the opportunity or felt that you wanted to say, this is me.
Speaker A:This is what I was able to do.
Speaker A:This is what I was able to accomplish with a disability?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:That is definitely something that I think is important to say that this is what I have been able to do.
Speaker B:And I'm just so grateful that God has given me this ability to do that.
Speaker B:I never thought that it would work out for my good, but it really has.
Speaker B:And I just want to encourage everyone that God has a plan and a purpose for everybody's life.
Speaker B:And it's just about finding what that is and going and going forward with that.
Speaker A:That's very valid.
Speaker A:That's beautiful.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Oh, that's beautiful.
Speaker A:So Michelle's mission dot com.
Speaker A:I said that many times with myself having a learning disability.
Speaker A:I think this is a beautiful website.
Speaker A:There's podcasts, there's merch, there's a blog, and there's resources, and you can also connect with Michelle.
Speaker A:This is a really.
Speaker A:If somebody needs to be able to get a hold of somebody, this is a really great.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:This is a really great place to be.
Speaker A:And as well, for me, I am grateful that we had this conversation because as somebody with a learning disability myself, I find that now that I'm older, I find that I really just don't care anymore.
Speaker A:I don't know if you feel that way.
Speaker A:Like, I really just don't care.
Speaker A:If I can't read something, I'll be like, I just can't read that.
Speaker B:I agree with you 100% because I can remember people would tell me, well, if I was going to be a teacher, I would have to be.
Speaker B:I would want to be a God.
Speaker B:And that I know everything.
Speaker B:And for a while, that did bother me.
Speaker B:And I thought, oh, I'm really failing everybody.
Speaker B:And then I thought to myself, I don't care now as much I can go in a classroom.
Speaker B:Like, I had a student asked me today for help, and I'm like, I said, do you know how in science class, Mrs. Steiner doesn't know everything?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I said, well, I don't know about that.
Speaker B:It's the same thing in this class.
Speaker B:I don't understand that, and I don't feel that guilt towards that.
Speaker B:I honestly think that if I would sit down with them, them, that I probably would steer them in the wrong direction even more.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But it's a part of who I am.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:It's part of me.
Speaker B:It's, it's.
Speaker B:And it's just the same as maybe somebody who isn't artistic.
Speaker B:I know there's a lot of people that'll say, oh, yeah, if you have a learning disability, you should be able to do all this work.
Speaker B:And then they'll be the first ones to say, but I'm not good at art.
Speaker B:Well, not everybody is good at art.
Speaker B:Not everybody is good at music.
Speaker B:Not everybody's good at reading, and not everybody's good at math.
Speaker B:And I think that just.
Speaker B:Just comes to that point where you accept that this is how God has made you.
Speaker B:And I find when I get in the activities, I love doing, like, reading and writing, photography.
Speaker B:I don't feel like I'm disabled.
Speaker B:I feel empowered and I feel happy.
Speaker B:And that's where I really try to put my time and energy into.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And another thing from my point of view is I'm able to see the world differently.
Speaker A:And because as you said, you, you, you, you being able to take pictures, people are seeing details in the flower that they never seen before.
Speaker A:And there have been situations and where I have.
Speaker A:I had to learn to learn differently.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And because I had to learn to learn differently, I can automatically be able to see things differently.
Speaker A:So in situations, I'd be like this or that, and people be like, whoa.
Speaker A:But to me, that's normal, you know, And.
Speaker A:And I don't know if you feel the same way, too.
Speaker A:To you may be normal as well.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:It's just normal to be able to see the.
Speaker B:I see the world in a different way that maybe other people can't.
Speaker B:I can look at a flower and I can see that beauty in that.
Speaker B:And maybe somebody else just.
Speaker B:I know, may not see that.
Speaker B:I know I'll be with my husband and I'll say, did you see that?
Speaker B:He'll be like, no, I'm focused on the road.
Speaker B:Or sometimes I didn't just be able to walk together.
Speaker B:And I noticed that.
Speaker B:And I get that chance to maybe just look at things differently and just to have a different approach to maybe a problem than maybe somebody else would.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And in the end, maybe this is my mind.
Speaker A:I mean, in the end, technically, it may not even be a disability.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:That word may not even be used at all.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because sometimes it's not a disability if it's something that I can do.
Speaker B:And I mean, and the problem is not necessarily the disability.
Speaker B:It's whenever we have a culture or society, Society that thinks, well, everybody needs to be in this little box.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And learn this and be able to do this.
Speaker B:And that's actually what disables the person more than the disability does.
Speaker A:Correct?
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:One of these days the word disability will be just no more.
Speaker A:It'll just be, everybody learns differently.
Speaker A:Because I mean, when you think about it in the sense now when we talk about learning in a.
Speaker A:As a broad spectrum, they'll be like, do you learn by doing?
Speaker A:Do you learn by seeing?
Speaker A:I mean, those are different ways of learning.
Speaker A:But we don't call those learning disabilities.
Speaker A:We just say that those are different ways of learning.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:We'll say those are learning styles.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And they encourage teachers to use a wide variety of learning styles and in the classroom.
Speaker B:Because some students need to see things, other students need to hear things.
Speaker B:Some need to be involved with doing that.
Speaker B:Some need a combination of all those things.
Speaker B:That was one of the things that they put on my earliest reports as an adult, that I don't have one particular way that I learned.
Speaker B:And they said that I would really benefit from having a multi module with learning.
Speaker B:And I found that to be so true.
Speaker B:I definitely need to see things, I need to hear them, and I also have to experience doing it.
Speaker B:And once I'm able to do that, then I can really learn something in my life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well said.
Speaker A:Well said.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I wouldn't even know how else to end it.
Speaker A:But, but, but with that on a positive note.
Speaker A:And yeah, because, I mean, what we talked about was quite a bit, not negative, but like, like in the beginning you're like, something's wrong with me.
Speaker A:There's the trauma, there's trying the struggle.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But in the end, I just.
Speaker A:Let's end this with a flower.
Speaker A:Like, we're amazing.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:It's a flower.
Speaker B:It really is.
Speaker B:And a flower.
Speaker B:What I find is so amazing about them is they have beauty to them and.
Speaker B:But there also is that pain along with that.
Speaker B:So you might have a rose with these beautiful pinks and reds and these petals that are just so pretty and everyone admires and some of them have smells to them that people love.
Speaker B:But on the rose is also a thorn that can also go out and be able to prick your skin as well.
Speaker B:So I think that that's something really important.
Speaker B:We have to realize with a disability, there's.
Speaker B:There's pain, but there's also such beauty to that, too.
Speaker B:And it's just that mixture.
Speaker B:And for the rest of my life, I will live with both of those things.
Speaker B:I will live with the beauty, and I'll also live with that pain, too.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:That's so much like a grieving process.
Speaker B:I mean, of just accepting that, going through all those different stages, and then just coming out with that acceptance.
Speaker B:And it's just.
Speaker B:There's so much beauty in that.
Speaker A:There's no better way to end it.
Speaker A:I want to thank you for joining me today, and I want to thank the audience for watching us today.
Speaker A:And remember, God is love, and God wants you to show his love to the world.
Speaker A:Until next time.
Speaker A:Later.
Speaker B:Goodbye.
