Episode 515
Swim Upstream: Parenting in a Crazy World with Josh Poteet
So, today we're diving into some real talk about parenting with Josh Poteet, the lead pastor of 180 Life Church and author of "Parenting Against the Current." Let’s be real—parenting is a wild ride, and Josh highlights that if we just float along, we’re gonna get swept away in the chaos of modern life. He argues that we need to be intentional in how we shepherd our kids, creating that all-important "village" we often hear about but forget to build. We share some laughs, some awkward stories, and a few hard truths about the struggles of being a parent. So buckle up, because if you thought you had it all figured out, spoiler alert: you probably don’t, and that’s totally okay!
Josh Poteet, the lead pastor of 180 Life Church and author of 'Parenting Against the Current', takes us on a wild ride through the unfiltered chaos of modern parenting. No sugar-coating here, folks! He dives into the challenges of raising kids in a world that's constantly changing, where the parenting playbook seems to be rewritten daily. He shares his personal anecdotes, reflecting on his own childhood and the stark differences in how parenting happens in today’s society versus his upbringing. The podcast reveals how crucial it is to build a supportive community—a ‘village’ if you will—to help shepherd our kids' hearts. The convo gets real as Josh talks about the absurdity of trying to navigate this parenting jungle alone, all while maintaining a sense of humor about the inevitable meltdowns, tantrums, and the ultimate test of patience that kids can dish out. Spoiler alert: It’s not about being perfect; it’s about being present and intentional, even when you feel like you're drowning in the chaos.
As the discussion unfolds, Josh and Ashley tackle the idea of being intentional in parenting, stressing the importance of having a clear destination in mind. They humorously lament the modern-day mantra of “don’t tell me how to parent” and how it can backfire. Instead, they advocate for an open-minded approach where parents lean on each other for support and guidance. The episode emphasizes that parenting isn’t just about survival; it’s about thriving in the messiness of it all. The laughs continue as they share stories of their own parenting fails and victories, reminding us that every misstep is just another opportunity to learn and grow alongside our kids.
The episode wraps up with some solid takeaways: prioritize your family, find that community, and don’t shy away from vulnerability. Josh’s insights serve as a powerful reminder that while parenting against the current is tough, it’s also a journey filled with grace, laughter, and the occasional facepalm moment. So grab your coffee, kick back, and enjoy this candid conversation about parenting in a world that often feels upside down.
In a world where parenting feels like an extreme sport, Josh Poteet joins Ashley to share some real talk about the trials and tribulations of raising kids today. He kicks things off by reflecting on his own upbringing, contrasting it with the experiences of parents now who often feel isolated in their parenting journeys. The duo gets deep into the nitty-gritty of what it means to intentionally shepherd your kids' hearts in a society where distractions are a dime a dozen. They discuss the critical need for community support and how it takes a village—not just for kids, but for parents too. This episode isn’t just about the struggles, though; it’s packed with relatable humor and the kind of candidness that makes you feel like you’re chatting with friends over coffee.
As Josh shares insights from his book, 'Parenting Against the Current', he dives into the importance of having a clear vision for your family. He challenges the notion that parenting can be approached with a ‘wing it’ mentality. Instead, he emphasizes the need for a destination—something parents can aim toward. Whether it's instilling values or creating a loving home, the conversation highlights that intentionality is key. Expect some hearty laughs as they exchange tales of parenting fails, from embarrassing moments in public to the epic meltdowns that come with the territory. It’s clear that while parenting can be a rollercoaster, the shared experiences and community support make the ride a little less daunting.
The episode culminates in a powerful reminder that even amidst the chaos, there’s beauty in vulnerability. Josh encourages parents to lean on each other and to remember that it’s okay to not have everything figured out. They wrap up with practical advice on how to build a supportive community, reminding listeners that they’re not alone in this wild journey. So, tune in for a mix of laughter, wisdom, and a whole lot of realness about the art of parenting against the current!
Takeaways:
- Parenting is a wild ride, and it's crucial to create a village for support.
- Discipling our kids intentionally is a challenge, but it's necessary to avoid putting it on the back burner.
- It's essential to have a clear destination for parenting, such as loving God and each other.
- Vulnerability in parenting can deepen relationships and build credibility with our kids.
Transcript
Welcome back.
Speaker A:My name is Ashley, and this is the Black Sheep Christian Podcast.
Speaker A:Today I have author Josh Poteet.
Speaker A:Welcome.
Speaker B:Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker A:Thanks for joining us.
Speaker A:I am happy that you messaged me because I think this is a topic that.
Speaker A:That I even talk about sometimes at work with fellow parents and you and your book coming up, Parenting against the Current, which I think is a very good topic to talk about, especially in today's world.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, it's one of the biggest challenges I think we have in our life.
Speaker B:And because it's such a big challenge, sometimes it gets put on the back burner, or at least that's my mo.
Speaker B:I'm like, hey, I'll address these things later.
Speaker B:If it's hard, I'll put it in the back burner.
Speaker B:And yet we can't do that with parenting, Especially not just parenting, but discipling, intentionally shepherding the hearts of our kids.
Speaker B:It's not easy.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is not easy.
Speaker A:And, you know, it's interesting because when I have these conversations with other parents, and I remember with my parents and their upbringing, them talking about their upbringing, especially with my dad in particular, my mom dad was in the military, so it didn't really.
Speaker A:This scenario didn't apply to her.
Speaker A:But with my dad growing up in Cleveland, living on a street, you know, he talks about other families on that street.
Speaker A:And if the parenting didn't happen at the home, it happened at a friend's house, you know, with whatever they were doing or hanging out.
Speaker A:And he would talk about how so.
Speaker A:And so Mrs.
Speaker A:Johnson disciplined them if they didn't do something.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it was like he had a village.
Speaker A:And when with me and my brother growing up, we didn't have that, that was completely different for us.
Speaker A:We didn't go to so and so's house and was disciplined.
Speaker A:It was completely different.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And then today I feel the same way.
Speaker A:You know, I didn't have that vill.
Speaker A:I had to create a village for my daughter in order to be able to have a similar environment that my parents had.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's the challenge is creating authentic communities to help shepherd.
Speaker B:Like, because it can't just parent and yet doing it in healthy ways.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, there are things that you can absolutely do to help guide my kids.
Speaker B:And then there's.
Speaker B:There's also some things that's off limits.
Speaker B:That's for mom and dad.
Speaker B:And so knowing those boundaries is really important.
Speaker B:I think that's something that, like, as generations have gone on or especially recently, there's been some Pretty big shifts from, like, how a boomer would parent their kids versus how a millennial.
Speaker B:And that's not necessarily bad, and it's also not necessarily good.
Speaker B:Like, there's.
Speaker B:There's a give and take.
Speaker B:I would say one of the misses that I have noticed, there's a.
Speaker B:There's a phrase that parents will say these days, and it's like my mission on earth to make this phrase die.
Speaker B:And it goes like.
Speaker B:Goes like this.
Speaker B:It's, don't tell me how to parent my kids.
Speaker B:And, like, to a degree, there's truth to it.
Speaker B:Like, don't go up to a parent who's struggling in the grocery store and tell them how to, like, lead their kids.
Speaker B:Like, you don't know them.
Speaker B:That's off bounds.
Speaker B:But it takes a village to raise a parent.
Speaker B:And I need other parents who are going to rally around me, parents who have been there before me, have seen the hard things, and can help me not fall into the same pitfalls that they did.
Speaker B:When my daughter Lila, like, right before she was born, one of the things that I did in the youth ministry or the young adults ministry that I was a part of was I knew I was like.
Speaker B:Like, dad, time was coming, like, baby was about to be born.
Speaker B:And so I went up to my friends who were young adults, and they loved Jesus, and I said, hey, give me your parents phone number.
Speaker B:Like, I need to figure out what they did.
Speaker B:And that was incredible because I sat down with them and I was like, what were the pitfalls?
Speaker B:What were your mistakes?
Speaker B:What did you do?
Speaker B:Well, and it gave me a jump start in a way that if I had that mentality of don't tell me how to parent my kids, I never would have had.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I'm really digesting that.
Speaker A:That I would have never thought about that.
Speaker A:Good for you.
Speaker A:Because, I mean.
Speaker A:And I say that, that I didn't think about that, because, I mean, I.
Speaker A:For me, in my situation, it was just a lot going on.
Speaker A:But, like, like, it's.
Speaker A:It's just a lot.
Speaker A:You know, you're thinking about work, maternity leave, and depending upon age or where you are, your career, your school, and then the stuff.
Speaker A:The stuff that a baby needs is just incredible.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And then I'm down.
Speaker A:My child just turned 18, and I am still.
Speaker A:I'm still amazed by the stuff that a baby.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, goodness.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's wild.
Speaker B:Like, you're not wrong.
Speaker B:And actually, like, a lot of what you just described is.
Speaker B:Is what this book was born out of, because when Parents become parents, or when they've been parents for 18 years, like, the.
Speaker B:The tendency.
Speaker B:And this is no fault to anybody.
Speaker B:Like, this is the world we live in.
Speaker B:This is a part of living in a fallen, broken world is, hey, I'm just trying to keep my head above water.
Speaker B:Like, I'm just trying to tread right now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:The problem is when I'm treading water and in a current, I'm being taken by it.
Speaker B:Which means that as intentional parents, we need to understand, one, our mission to move upstream and to lead our families intentionally.
Speaker B:And two, and I think this is where we get into trouble as parents a little bit, is we need a clearly, clearly defined destination that we're parenting towards, and most parents don't have that.
Speaker B:And because of that, it's like, I'm surviving.
Speaker B:I'm keeping my head above water, which is, like, I'm treading.
Speaker B:But I'm also pushing forward with my family because I know where I want to lead them.
Speaker B:And so, like, spoiler for the book, because, like, like, who cares?
Speaker B:This is about equipping parents anyway.
Speaker B:The destination that is laid out in the book that I laid out with my co author, Matt nations is for my family.
Speaker B:It's threefold.
Speaker B:This is something that Jenny and I, my bride, we've had a ton of conversations on.
Speaker B:And it goes like this.
Speaker B:I want my kids to love God, love others, and enjoy us.
Speaker B:And the last one being, like, when they don't have to be around us, we still want them to choose to be around us.
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:And so what that means, though, how that translates into our life and discipling in our home is everything we do is.
Speaker B:Is pushed through that filter.
Speaker B:Like, does it help us get to our destination?
Speaker B:Do we have dinner together as a family every night?
Speaker B:Yes, because it leads towards that destination.
Speaker B:Am I a soccer coach right now, even though I never played soccer before in my life?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Because that helps us move in the destiny.
Speaker B:Do we go to church every Sunday?
Speaker B:Like, there.
Speaker B:There are things that we have as staples in our home because we've got a destination we're moving towards.
Speaker A:All right, So I was thinking, like, a family business plan.
Speaker A:You know, you.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker A:You have what, you know, your mission statement, how to get to that, how you want your family business to be.
Speaker A:Even though I'm just doing quotes.
Speaker A:But then there's also steps in order to accomplish that, you know, but as.
Speaker A:As a parent, when my child was born, it was just simply, like, I just want them to be a good person.
Speaker A:You know, there, there just wasn't nuances to that.
Speaker A:How do I make a good person?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a very real challenge for, for parents because so, so I would even say I would push back a little bit on the target.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Because like, because then, then the question goes to, well, what is good?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Which is a question that Jesus asked and.
Speaker B:Or like, is it successful or is it they become good parents or they check some boxes or they make a lot of money.
Speaker B:What, what is it?
Speaker B:And, or they're just kind.
Speaker B:Which honestly I want my kids to be kind.
Speaker B:But first and foremost, I would say like symptom of that keeping.
Speaker B:The main thing, the main thing would be a deep abiding relationship with Jesus is going to, to lead us to have good kids.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And maybe not by the definition of the world, like, but they don't get to define my kids anyways.
Speaker B:It's their walk with Jesus that's going to transcend into their life and how they love and treat and have an impact on others.
Speaker B:But again, like, it's so easy to say that from a chair and to actually put that into practice is.
Speaker B:Man, it's hard.
Speaker B:Like, the last thing that I want, Ashley, is to have this super well structured plan, right.
Speaker B:I'm just like, this is what you need to do and if you're not doing it, you're failing.
Speaker B:That's not it.
Speaker B:That's not what this is, is hopefully an encouragement or maybe a loving reminder to say, hey, like the best time to start discipling your kids was yesterday.
Speaker B:The second best time is right now.
Speaker B:So what does it look like for us to have a plan and intentionally lead in that direction?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's interesting that you say that because I, that reminded me of a time when I had the bandwidth, I'll say that I had the bandwidth to go to church because going to church can take energy for people.
Speaker A:And I remember I dropped my daughter off at Sunday school, you know, went to the big people church and then picked them up.
Speaker A:And I remember I was like, oh, how was Sunday school?
Speaker A:And their eyes was just like, I don't know what we talked about, I don't know what we did.
Speaker A:I can't tell, I can't compute anything.
Speaker A:And I remember at that moment I was like, okay.
Speaker A:And that's when I started volunteering in children's church in order to be able to not only be there to teach, but also when we got home, be able to reiterate what, what, what we went through for that week.
Speaker A:So when, when you do talk about, with your last statement about, you know, it doesn't need to be structured.
Speaker A:You know, sometimes when you, you'll.
Speaker A:Those opportunities are going to come your way and you either, you either can you either have the bandwidth to be able to do it, find the resource to do it, or be able to not to do it at all in order to make the goal of just making a human being be with Christ.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's a really hard point, I think for a lot of us as parents to figure out how to navigate.
Speaker B:Because you're right, we hit those seasons where it's like full on.
Speaker B:Like, I'm just, I'm on fumes, like I'm broken down on the side of the road, just trying to make ends meet.
Speaker B:And yet for me, the, the tension has always been everything I say yes to, I say no to something else.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so figuring out what are the things that are most important for me to say yes to.
Speaker B:So me abiding with Jesus that, like, because when I get busy, like, and this is ugly and pastors aren't supposed to say this, but I don't care.
Speaker B:We're going to be real.
Speaker B:I get busy.
Speaker B:And the quickest thing to get busied out of my schedule is my time with Jesus.
Speaker B:The quickest thing.
Speaker B:Which means that I have to be really careful of guarding that which is most important.
Speaker B:And that also translates into shepherding the hearts of our kids.
Speaker B:Like I.
Speaker B:My kids, and I'm sure you would agree, like, our kids are too important and too incredible for us to not shepherd them intentionally.
Speaker B:And, and that's like me talking from the mountaintop right now.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, I'm not saying that every day is going to be easy or that you're going to crush it every time.
Speaker B:Like, there have been times where I've tried to explain a biblical theme to my daughter and, and it just, just way over her head, like, just gone.
Speaker B:And like, especially the first couple.
Speaker B:It was funny.
Speaker B:I remember a time I was having dinner with Jenny and the kids and we were, we were talking about, like, it was raining out and there was like, the dogs brought mud into the house.
Speaker B:And for whatever reason, it leaned into this conversation about sin and about like, like God keeping a clean house and like, how Jesus gives us new shoes.
Speaker B:Like, it was this whole thing of, like, man, he gives us new shoes, so we walk in clean.
Speaker B:And I was like, I thought it was so clever.
Speaker B:And I look over and she was just gone.
Speaker B:Like, she was not tracking at all.
Speaker B:My wife, she laughed and we just moved on.
Speaker B:But like, you're not always going to nail it.
Speaker B:Was the point of that weird story.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh my goodness.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:My daughter has gotten me a few times with things like that.
Speaker A:And you think you're like, yeah, I'm doing it.
Speaker A:I'm being a parent.
Speaker A:They just look at you like, no thank you to go play.
Speaker A:Yep, not today.
Speaker B:It's too real.
Speaker B:It's too real.
Speaker A:They do.
Speaker A:I do have to say, children really do test your self esteem and ego.
Speaker A:Like are you really how thin skinned you are?
Speaker A:Kids really have a great way of testing that.
Speaker B:Oh my goodness.
Speaker B:And praise God for it, man.
Speaker B:Like I, you know what I need?
Speaker B:I need more humility in my life.
Speaker B:Like pride's my stumbling block.
Speaker B:That's just like everyone has something that is mine and mine just tends to be uglier than most people's, I guess.
Speaker B:And to have a tiny human or a couple tiny humans to remind me of how human I am and how desperately.
Speaker B:Because I'll go to self reliance so quick.
Speaker B:How desperately I need Jesus.
Speaker B:Not just in the big like magnificent things or the preaching on stage or the writing a book or whatever.
Speaker B:It's, it's in the.
Speaker B:Yeah, but I, I want to be a faithful disciple.
Speaker B:When I wake up in the morning and I get my son up and I'm getting him ready for school, I want, I want to do that in a way that honors God.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's not just the big things, it's the small.
Speaker B:And so yeah, I mean everything you just said, praise God for.
Speaker B:Because I need extra doses, like give me that extra portion of humility.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you know what the biggest, some of the biggest wins.
Speaker A:My daughter recently graduated and it was what's called senior sunrise.
Speaker A:So they wake up at 2 in the morning, which is something that I wouldn't have done.
Speaker A:But kudos, great job for that.
Speaker A:They go to, you know, somebody's house, they go out to breakfast or, and, and they do various activities and then they go to the high school and then one kid had an RV and they play games and they're basically watching the sunset together as seniors.
Speaker A:One of the last things, and I remember they did a, in the family chat, they said how grateful they are.
Speaker A:You know, there are things that, you know, in their 12 years, 13 years of schooling, you know, there are things that they didn't like.
Speaker A:But you know, to see the sunrise, they reflected on the beautiful things and it was kind of like, wow, you know, it's like a Finish line.
Speaker A:And those, like, those little nuggets are just the greatest thing in the world.
Speaker A:You know, after all the practices and the meltdown and, you know, bills being paid, it's just like, those little nuggets.
Speaker A:It's just like, is this how God feels about us?
Speaker A:I hope so.
Speaker B:No, I love that.
Speaker B:I think you bring up something that's so important, too, especially when we talk about, like, having a destination that we're aiming towards.
Speaker B:Yeah, because.
Speaker B:Because if you were to drive to.
Speaker B:So, Ashley, where are you located?
Speaker A:Oh, I'm in Dayton, Ohio.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So if you were to drive from Ohio to Florida right now, what you're probably not going to do is just focus on Florida the entire time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That would be miserable.
Speaker B:That would feel like.
Speaker B:Like it's just taking eternity.
Speaker B:You would look towards the lunch pit stop and the next site that you get to see, and maybe you decide to drive along the coast or through the mountains to get there.
Speaker B:Like, you're looking at the mile markers along the way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so what you just described, especially in some of the gratitude statements that you just made, is a really important thing.
Speaker B:Because if I'm just looking towards the destination, love God, love others, and enjoy us.
Speaker B:Well, when they're throwing a tantrum at three years old in the middle of the craft section of Target does not feel like winning.
Speaker B:Like, maybe I'm speaking from personal experience.
Speaker B:Does not feel like winning.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But there's mile markers.
Speaker B:There's things that I get to celebrate.
Speaker B:Well, hold on.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, we had a bad moment, but, man, what about the conversation afterwards where we really got to talk about regulating emotions and giving maybe core phrases that.
Speaker B:That they can hold on to?
Speaker B:Like, you get to decide what offends you.
Speaker B:That's like, one that we've got in our home right now.
Speaker B:It's your choice.
Speaker B:What offends you?
Speaker B:Having those dialogues and conversations and taking those mile markers is victory.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And if we focus fully and wholly on the end game, I think we miss out on a lot of gratitude in where we are right now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow, that's a big conversation.
Speaker A:What offends you?
Speaker A:Don't you learn that real quick?
Speaker A:Especially with multiple kids and sibling problems?
Speaker B:I'm waiting for it to get weaponized against me.
Speaker B:I know it will at some point.
Speaker B:It's coming.
Speaker B:And honestly, I won't even be mad.
Speaker B:Like, I'll just be like, you know what?
Speaker B:Touche, tiny human.
Speaker B:Like, you win this round.
Speaker A:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker A:I remember spanking.
Speaker A:I was trying to, you know, new parent.
Speaker A:I'm Trying to figure out punishment.
Speaker A:You know, my daughter's in a diaper.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Didn't do what they were supposed to do.
Speaker A:Don't even remember.
Speaker A:But I remember I just spank that bottom whack.
Speaker A:And my child just looked at me like, woman, what are you doing?
Speaker A:Yeah, when you say, like, what offends you?
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That face, I'll never forget it.
Speaker A:Be like, woman, what are you doing?
Speaker A:And why did you do that to me?
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I just didn't have recourse.
Speaker A:I was just like, well, this isn't.
Speaker B:This is not work.
Speaker A:So I am sure I.
Speaker A:You probably have that tiny human over there that is just gonna.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That just is a spitfire.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, like, God didn't print our kids out with a cookie cutter.
Speaker B:Like, they're all different.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so, like, even, like, discipline.
Speaker B:Like, if I were to discipline Lila, our daughter versus Ezra, our son the same way.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Our house would not function.
Speaker B:Like, it wouldn't work.
Speaker B:Like, Lilla is so gentle and empathetic, and I could, if I'm not careful, could crush her with a word.
Speaker B:Like, I have to be so gentle.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Ezra is a one man wrecking ball.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:Like, I have to be more direct and like, hey, eye contact, buddy.
Speaker B:We need it.
Speaker B:Like, this is not.
Speaker B:And so I.
Speaker B:I think you're.
Speaker B:You're spot on.
Speaker B:And like, man, like, every kiddo is different.
Speaker B:And a lot of, especially early parenting is that troubleshooting of like, okay, so what works?
Speaker B:Also?
Speaker B:Knowing.
Speaker B:Like, because I guess we've touched on discipline a little bit.
Speaker B:Like, knowing.
Speaker B:Like James 1 says that the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God, which means that discipline, really, anything out of anger isn't helpful.
Speaker B:And so for me, actually, Dallas Willard says it this way.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:He says there's nothing that we could do with anger, that we couldn't do better without it.
Speaker B:And so for me, in discipline discipling, walking beside my family, I have to understand that there are different vehicles that I can try to take to that destination.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And one of those vehicles could be anger, which I would call a lesser vehicle.
Speaker B:That's not going to actually, like, lesser, like, inferior vehicles lead to inferior destinations.
Speaker B:And so I want to take the vehicle that Jesus took, which was.
Speaker B:Was love.
Speaker B:Like, everything he did was built on love, whether it was like meeting the.
Speaker B:The leper and healing him or giving a healthy rebuke to the Pharisee.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like, both of those were met.
Speaker B:Like, those were love responses of Jesus.
Speaker B:And so in discipline, whatever we choose and whatever works for our kids.
Speaker B:And this is a whole, like, guarding my heart.
Speaker B:Like, I get to decide what offends me sort of thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is the vehicle is not meant to be anger.
Speaker B:And that's hard.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that is.
Speaker A:Because they do a great job at testing.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:They're button pushers.
Speaker A:I love it in ways that you just never could imagine.
Speaker B:I know, but that's.
Speaker B:That's the beauty of it, Ashley.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like, you're growing too.
Speaker B:Like, I'm growing too.
Speaker B:Like, Jesus didn't say, hey, parent these kids so that they can become more mature.
Speaker B:It was like, hey, you're going to help them grow, and they're going to help you grow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's a beautiful way of saying it.
Speaker A:That's a beautiful way of saying it.
Speaker A:Because I am definitely not the person that I was.
Speaker A:Definitely not without kids, would.
Speaker A:I had a.
Speaker A:I would have had an easier life, that's for sure.
Speaker A:But, I mean, at the end of the day, the.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It's really interesting because, you know, people are having less kids.
Speaker A:It's understandable.
Speaker A:It's hard.
Speaker A:It's expensive.
Speaker A:Why do we do this to ourselves?
Speaker A:Is a great question that I still ponder.
Speaker A:But when you get to the finish line, it is.
Speaker A:It's like growing a garden.
Speaker A:Like, once.
Speaker A:Once.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Once the flowers bloom, it's just the most beautiful thing.
Speaker A:And you just forget how expensive and how backbreaking that garden was, putting it together.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:So question for you.
Speaker A:So when writing this book, what.
Speaker A:What surprised you the most when putting this book together?
Speaker B:Other than, like, how magnificently I fail all the time.
Speaker B:Because that's, like, the highlight of the book.
Speaker B:It was like, hey, where did I mess up?
Speaker B:Where did other people do well?
Speaker B:Yeah, other than that.
Speaker B:Because I'm just good at failing forward.
Speaker B:I would say.
Speaker B:I would say it is that concept of how hard it is.
Speaker B:And this is an active practice for me because, again, pride's a struggle.
Speaker B:So I want to battle against pride.
Speaker B:I personally have to have a battle plan against it.
Speaker B:And so it's a phrase that I think is really important for parents to understand.
Speaker B:It's like, what does it look like for you to fail forward?
Speaker B:Because culture today says you cannot have weaknesses, you can't make mistakes, you cannot be vulnerable, because then you'll be exposed and someone will use it against you.
Speaker B:And that might be true, but that didn't stop Jesus.
Speaker B:It was used against him, and he still put himself up on the cross.
Speaker B:So for Me, I think the surprising part, slash.
Speaker B:The part that was surprising, was how fruitful, authentic vulnerability actually is.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:Because we view it as, like, if I show weakness, especially to my kids or any.
Speaker B:Any.
Speaker B:Any leadership that I'm in, we view it as undermining our authority.
Speaker B:But what it actually does is it builds credibility and it deepens relationship.
Speaker B:And so I think that was the big surprise.
Speaker B:And I mean, Jesus modeled it, so maybe I shouldn't have been surprised.
Speaker B:But over and over again, I've seen this happen.
Speaker B:And it's not just in my parenting, like, it's in my marriage.
Speaker B:It's leading my staff here at the church.
Speaker B:Like, leading from vulnerability is a gift that I get to give people, and the deeper connection is the reward that I get to have from it.
Speaker B:So I would say that that's a key piece that was surprising to me.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:That's beautiful.
Speaker A:I'm digesting that one.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I would agree with you on that one.
Speaker A:I would agree with you on that one.
Speaker A:That's beautiful.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm thinking, because sometimes, you know, I.
Speaker A:I'm at a point where I remember I did something, I get road rage, easy.
Speaker A:That's something that I'm working on.
Speaker A:You know, when somebody moves too slow, it really affects me.
Speaker A:It offends me easily.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I remember one day I told my daughter, I caught it.
Speaker A:I acted and I.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:And I said, don't be like me.
Speaker A:Don't be like me.
Speaker A:And my daughter was like, I won't worry, I won't.
Speaker A:But, yeah, when it comes to vulnerability, because, you know, I also think after telling that story, you know, the relationship with my parents and then the relationship that they have with their parents, vulnerability is.
Speaker A:Is quite vast between the generations.
Speaker A:I am more vulnerable with my daughter than my.
Speaker A:Than I was with my parents and with their parents.
Speaker A:And as an adult, I've noticed that my parents have become more vulnerable with me with some things about, you know, their struggles, which I find quite fascinating.
Speaker A:I don't know, because they're just old and tired or it's just the.
Speaker A:The wave that is changing or how they've seen me parent my.
Speaker A:My daughter.
Speaker A:Because I've.
Speaker A:I've been vulnerable.
Speaker A:Sometimes I'd be like, I'm tired.
Speaker A:Or I remember, like, finances.
Speaker A:I remember they were young, and I was like, I can't afford Cocoa Puffs right now.
Speaker B:That's real.
Speaker A:That was real.
Speaker A:I was like, it's not on sale.
Speaker A:I don't have a coupon.
Speaker A:It doesn't fit the rules.
Speaker A:I Can't afford Cocoa Puffs.
Speaker A:And I remember they told me one day when they saw the Cocoa Puffs, how, how, how happy they were.
Speaker A:But vulnerability, that, that's a beautiful surprise.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And if, and to get practical with it, because there's levels of vulnerability too that just aren't appropriate.
Speaker B:A three year old can't carry the same weight or understand the same concepts as a 17 year old.
Speaker B:And so easy example being.
Speaker B:So part of my story walking with Jesus is I'm a recovered alcoholic.
Speaker B:I'm 13 years sober by the grace of God.
Speaker B:But that's something I walked through.
Speaker B:Now my son, who is 2, has no clue.
Speaker B:Like, that's like he couldn't understand anyway.
Speaker B:But our daughter, who's older, she understands some of the concepts around it.
Speaker B:Like she understands not so much the alcoholism piece, but that dad, apart from Jesus, made some very, very foolish decisions and that his world gravitated towards things that it really had no business having a hold of his heart.
Speaker B:Like she, she'd tell you that.
Speaker B:And as she gets older, using my testimony as a way to continue to point my kids to Jesus in age appropriate ways is really important.
Speaker B:I'd say the other thing, and this is one that's so important for parents to know.
Speaker B:There's, there's a phrase that I want everyone to like, just lock in, okay?
Speaker B:And it goes like this.
Speaker B:When your kids ask you a question and you, you have no idea, because kids are going to ask you questions that you have never thought of.
Speaker B:Like never thought of.
Speaker B:They ask you that.
Speaker B:Here's the phrase.
Speaker B:It goes like this.
Speaker B:I don't know, let's find out together.
Speaker B:That's discipleship.
Speaker B:That's too often we'll say, well, because the Bible says so, or God works in mysterious ways, or just because or because I said so.
Speaker B:But, but actually we can take it a step further and get to the why and get to the understanding and, and honestly, it's a way that we grow too.
Speaker B:I grow too is when my daughter asked me a question that I'm like, I have never thought of that before in my life.
Speaker B:Well, look, why puff up and pretend like I've got it all together?
Speaker B:Let's fail forward.
Speaker B:I don't know, let's find out together.
Speaker B:And now we're on a journey of me not just giving her answers, but teaching her how to fish, how to find the answers herself.
Speaker A:Not only that, but I'm also thinking I just had a thought in my mind.
Speaker A:Course correction.
Speaker A:I remember Jess.
Speaker A:It was on Netflix and we're watching a tv, and I'm asking my daughter a question because I.
Speaker A:Cell phones came out when I was young.
Speaker A:We didn't have smartphones.
Speaker A:It wasn't a thing.
Speaker A:Cell phones were just new.
Speaker A:But I know my daughter is in a building where they have access.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's just not only just access to cell phones, but other people's cell phones.
Speaker A:You know, hey, let me show you this.
Speaker A:Hey, let me show you that.
Speaker A:And so I.
Speaker A:I don't have the luxury of course correction sometimes.
Speaker A:So, you know, you know, when we were watching a show, you know, I'm asking a question because.
Speaker A:Because I'm trying to have an opportunity to be able to course correct if that answer is incorrect.
Speaker A:Because as a parent, when they leave the door to school or I drop them off a practice, I.
Speaker A:I'm giving them to the world.
Speaker B:I think that's.
Speaker B:You just described the scariest part of parenting is, is that I don't have control.
Speaker B:Like, at some point, your kids are going to be sent out and they are either going to slay giants or they're going to be taken by them.
Speaker B:And that's terrifying.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I love what you said of, like.
Speaker B:Like, if we could.
Speaker B:And this is like, man, if society could do this, society.
Speaker B:It's not just parenting.
Speaker B:Like, if we could just figure out how to ask better questions.
Speaker B:Yeah, my goodness, we would be so.
Speaker B:And also, like, that whole, like, I get to decide what offends me so we can stop being these unoffended people, people on mountaintops, and really start meeting people where they are.
Speaker B:My goodness.
Speaker B:Like, things like, we turn this place upside down for the name of Jesus.
Speaker B:Because, man, like, good questions like you're describing are pulse checks.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's going to say, hey, like, where are you?
Speaker B:What's your understanding of this?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And too often we stay away from questions.
Speaker B:I think one of the reasons is we don't always know the answers.
Speaker B:And like, like, think about it.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not going to ask someone in my church how they're doing serving if I'm not also serving.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, we avoid the topics that we're not doing or we don't fully understand, which is why it's so important for parents to understand.
Speaker B:Like, I can't lead my family to a place that I'm not.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I really need to have that deep, abiding walk with Jesus.
Speaker B:Like, I need an understanding of what the gospel is and who he says that I am and he who he says my children are and how.
Speaker B:How I Can walk beside them intentionally.
Speaker B:Like, I need to know those answers, which is like, it's hard, like, because all of us start at ground zero.
Speaker B:Like, not one of us is like, hey, I was born and I had a Bible in my hands.
Speaker B:Like, this is just how it happened.
Speaker B:Like, that's not it.
Speaker B:And so it's a growing process.
Speaker B:And I would say, like, man, but the emphasis really needs to be on parents.
Speaker B:I would say this is why, by God's grace, I believe that like 0 to 2 years old, like your kids don't have any.
Speaker B:They grow a little bit.
Speaker B:They've got no idea what's going on.
Speaker B:They don't know.
Speaker B:And here's why it's a gift is rather than trying to figure out answers, easy example being like, how do I share the gospel?
Speaker B:Rather than trying to figure that out when my 13 year old asks me, hey, what is this?
Speaker B:Why not use 0 to 2 to practice sharing the gospel on your.
Speaker B:Your 1 year old who has no risk of their theology getting like torn to shreds like they've got no idea.
Speaker B:Like, share the gospel.
Speaker B:I tell people, like a practice with a toy in their room.
Speaker B:Like, pick a toy, share the gospel through that lion toy and then share the gospel through that lamp and share through the didgeridoo or whatever it is.
Speaker B:And that's like, it's going to sound awkward and your spouse is going to be like, you sound like a doofus right now.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker B:You're figuring it out.
Speaker B:You've got two years to flex those muscles and then it's game time.
Speaker A:Oh, that's a good one.
Speaker A:Because, you know, when you think about it, you were learning yourself at the same time too.
Speaker A:Even though you've been with yourself all your life, like, like you think you're a pro in it, but I mean, when that human is just moving you, like, what, you'd be like, you, you learn things about yourself and you do things that you probably would have never fathomed before.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:In your life.
Speaker A:I remember I was like, yeah, it was Little Einstein's.
Speaker A:I was like, yeah, we're gonna get this dvd.
Speaker A:My kid is gonna be smart.
Speaker A:And I'm putting this DVD in and tell me why not only myself, but.
Speaker A:But my daughter fell asleep on that couch together, didn't even go through it.
Speaker A:And I said, you know what?
Speaker A:Little Einstein's isn't for us.
Speaker A:But it was.
Speaker A:But with that, with that example was just you.
Speaker A:It's like you're learning about yourself.
Speaker A:You're like, you know what Little Einstein's was really boring.
Speaker A:You know, you're thinking like it's doing all these checkpoints, let's do pig plus cat instead.
Speaker A:Because I just love the humor.
Speaker A:And in the end I learned that, you know what, television shows with humor is really where I'm at.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's a process.
Speaker B:And like, man, even like the story of Little Einstein's though is a cool victory because if you're looking at through my lens is what's the destination?
Speaker B:Enjoy us and your kiddo is falling asleep on your lap.
Speaker B:Like I'm just like that, that's, that's along the ride.
Speaker B:Like, that's Little Einstein's was a part of the journey for you guys.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Another question for you when it comes to this journey, because it isn't really just about us.
Speaker A:I mean in the end it's really a community that raises the child.
Speaker A:And that's something in my opinion.
Speaker A:I feel that as a society we're lacking, we're putting a lot too much on parents.
Speaker A:What, what, I don't know how to re.
Speaker A:How to phrase this question because it can really go either way.
Speaker A:What can parents do?
Speaker A:What, what should the community look out like?
Speaker A:Like how do we need to team up in order to better prepare the children for Christ?
Speaker B:Yeah, I would say parenting in isolation isn't just hard, it's, it's bad.
Speaker B:We need community around us in order to do this effectively and well.
Speaker B:And so I would.
Speaker B:And it sounds self serving because I'm a pastor, but it's not.
Speaker B:I genuinely believe this and I practiced this before I was ever called into ministry.
Speaker B:Is that like, like plug into a local church?
Speaker B:And I know that there's different wrestling blocks for that.
Speaker B:Like everyone's got a different background and things that they struggle with.
Speaker B:But having a biblical community, one that is going to accept you as you are, but call you to what is better is essential.
Speaker B:It's a whole like, accept you as you are but don't leave you where you are.
Speaker B:And that's really so important for parents.
Speaker B:And at the same time we course correct too much and then we delegate the discipleship of our kids to the church.
Speaker B:And that's not the church's job.
Speaker B:The church wants to partner with you and to care for you.
Speaker B:And yet the primary disciple maker in your home is you as the parent and so not over correcting.
Speaker B:So I would say plug into a local church, seek out community and look for other parents who are a step ahead of you and then also a step behind because you don't want to just make it about being a consumer and receive, receive, receive.
Speaker B:But how can I pour out and bless others in the way that I've been cared for?
Speaker B:That's gonna shift the perspective on what discipling your family looks like.
Speaker B:And what's beautiful about it is your kids see that, and then their community starts to be formed based on your community, because they're hanging out with the kids of the parents that I'm trying to learn from too, and the ones that I'm leading.
Speaker B:And there's this healthy community where they're gonna struggle.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because, like, kids need that too.
Speaker B:Where do they learn how to handle conflict biblically through other kids and other relationships they have.
Speaker B:And so you're doing that, but in a safe arena for them to go ahead and occasionally do battle with them.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's great advice.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's really great advice.
Speaker A:Because, you know, now that I think about it, there were friends that my parents didn't like.
Speaker A:Sure, they were worried a few times, but when.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker A:Because growing up, we weren't.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We did go to church.
Speaker A:Now I'm.
Speaker A:I'm thinking because, you know, we moved due to job, so it wasn't.
Speaker A:We weren't too involved in it.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:I do remember with my daughter, though, I didn't.
Speaker A:My daughter didn't have a friend that I worried about.
Speaker A:It was kind of like being part of a community.
Speaker A:My daughter didn't have a friend.
Speaker A:I'd be like, I'm not too sure about that kid.
Speaker A:And I think you're right.
Speaker A:And there was another thing that you said that really stuck out to me was partner with the church.
Speaker A:I think that's a very powerful word.
Speaker A:And I say that because the relationship with the church and the community, we're kind of like doing this dance right now.
Speaker A:You know, the community's asking for something.
Speaker A:The church has these resources, but we.
Speaker A:We're not communicating too well right now.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I think the word partner fits perfectly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And when we can do that, and we won't, like, we'll mess this up, communication breaks down.
Speaker B:But if we can fight for relationship, not in relationship, and we can really pursue understanding and unity, those things start to line up.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And really a core mission, like the mission of the church, like, Jesus's plan for the church was like, us making disciples like that.
Speaker B:That was it.
Speaker B:Like, therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey my commands.
Speaker B:And surely I Will be with you through the end of the age.
Speaker B:Like, that's the game plan.
Speaker B:And that starts in the home.
Speaker B:And so that should be the priority of the church.
Speaker B:Hey, we want to partner with you, but know that there's going to be some bumps in the road because your family is different than my family is different from their family.
Speaker B:Which means that what you need is going to be very different.
Speaker B:Like, some families, priority one is, like, the marriage is in disrepair, and like, that's.
Speaker B:That's got to be the focus of the church and really of that house.
Speaker B:Whereas other than maybe it's a single mom or single dad, well, hey, how do we partner and care for them?
Speaker B:It's going to be different in all different avenues.
Speaker B:It's really about that mindset of, hey, we're partners in this, which means that we need to open a clear communication, and we need to be present enough that we're known and that we can have that line of communication open.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's powerful.
Speaker A:I'm digesting what you just said.
Speaker A:I do that a lot.
Speaker A:When someone has something good to say, it's like, I treat it like food.
Speaker A:Like, I eat.
Speaker A:It's got to digest.
Speaker A:It's got to feel good.
Speaker A:I gotta, you know, feel those textures and flavors.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker B:I get.
Speaker A:Takes time.
Speaker A:It takes time.
Speaker A:Time.
Speaker A:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker A:I appreciate your wisdom today and with your book Parenting against the Current.
Speaker A:I think it's great timing.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:I mean, we've been on this path for a long time, so I shouldn't say it's great timing.
Speaker A:It's better now than later because, you know, looking at the news today, especially what's going on in schools, what parents are trying to do it, it's, you know, I told.
Speaker A:I know I'm saying too much and nothing at all.
Speaker A:At the same time.
Speaker A:I know he is older than me, baby boomer.
Speaker A:And then here I am as a millennial.
Speaker A:And then there's a newlywed, and, you know, she's thinking about having kids.
Speaker A:So we're all having this conversation together.
Speaker A:And he was like, when his kids graduate, he was like.
Speaker A:He was so happy because.
Speaker A:And in his point of view, things were changing then that he felt wasn't right.
Speaker A:And here I have a child that just graduated, and I was like, yeah, things are changing now that just don't feel right.
Speaker A:So it's interesting because as a society, we are seeing this train wreck that's happening, but we're not doing enough or fast enough in Order to, to, to make a change.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, it's hard.
Speaker B:And I think that just leans back into the busy.
Speaker B:Like we're so busy.
Speaker B:It's like a badge of honor these days of like, hey, how are you doing?
Speaker B:Oh, I'm, I'm fine.
Speaker B:I'm busy.
Speaker B:Like it's like man, busy was never the target.
Speaker B:And I would even shift it a little bit.
Speaker B:It's not just busy, it's, it's, it's hurried because Jesus was busy.
Speaker B:Like he had a lot going on and yet he was never so hurried that he wouldn't like invite an interruption or sneak away to be with the Father.
Speaker B:And so the tension point, I think where our society is today, especially in American culture, is that we are so busy and so really so hurried that we haven't given ourselves the opportunity to slow down, do the most important things that are going to have to biggest impacts on society at large.
Speaker B:And if we can slow down and really prioritize the home that God has given us to steward, whether that's one kid by yourself or you're married with 17 kids, whatever, God has given you to steward, stewarding well and doing it in a way that really pushes towards the destination that God has invited all of his people to go towards.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's, that's good advice.
Speaker A:I mean that, that's a good explanation.
Speaker A:You got one more advice, one more piece of advice for parents or non parents, soon to be parents out there.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, I would say if you're wrestling through what it looks like to disciple and lead your, your home, you're exactly where you're meant to be.
Speaker B:Like, this is not, this should not be a guilt ridden, shame driven like begrudging walk upstream.
Speaker B:It, it should be a man like I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to get with other people who get it and who are going to help me because you don't have to do it alone.
Speaker B:And you even wrestling with the question and authentically trying to make plans to move upstream, man, that's, that's where you're supposed to be.
Speaker B:And so don't hear shame or discouragement.
Speaker B:Those are, those are lies from the enemy.
Speaker B:He likes to play his games, but we don't need to play along.
Speaker B:And I would say hear the truth in this.
Speaker B:Like God has called you to be the primary disciple maker in your home.
Speaker B:Whether you've been doing that for years or you're getting ready to get started, like you're exactly where you're supposed to be.
Speaker B:Let's move forward.
Speaker A:That's beautiful.
Speaker A:I couldn't say that better myself.
Speaker A:Josh Poteet, I am very grateful and blessed for you to join me today.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker B:I really appreciate getting to be on here and the chat.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:All right, guys, I'll see you next time.
